Angry fists and hateful slurs flew deadly in the living room. I peeled the perpetrator off the victim and sent her to her room. She bolted her feet to the floor and hissed, “You can’t make me.”
Have you been there, stuck in that moment between, “Did she seriously just say that?” and “Uh-oh, what on earth am I going to do?” If you haven’t been there, mom, trust me when I say your time is coming.
This child isn’t some horrible brat who no one pays attention to or holds accountable for her actions. She has never been to juvenile detention. For that matter, most people think she is an angel. But she does disobey. In fact, at times she is all-out defiant. She has actually been that way as long as I can remember her cute little self. As a baby, when I would tell her not to touch something, she would smile and stick her hand right back on it.
Of course, back then I was a “perfect-know-it-all-parent” and was certain that a lot of good discipline would cure her of that. I was dead wrong. It sure hasn’t worked. Granted, she is generally characterized by obedience, so there is some gain in discipline, but there are still plenty of times when that old defiant spark sends electrifying jolts straight through my heart.
So what does one do about defiance?
Pointing a Defiant Child to God
We’ve talked a lot about obedience around here. When I wrote the post, Teaching Your Child to Want to Obey, I had no idea that any parent would be in opposition to the concept of obedience. It really had never occurred to me that obedience was an option in a functioning society. I mean, if no one obeyed, our entire world would be in complete chaos. Drunk drivers would kill innocent families on a constant basis. People would freely murder their neighbors over small annoyances such as a dog barking at 6am. And children would be abused without recourse.
Why? Well, if there is no reason or desire to follow any sort of rule, we can all do whatever we wish. And the Bible is clear about that which we wish. Jeremiah 17:9 says, “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked…” Certainly this is the reason why authority, laws, and rules have been in existence since, well, the beginning of time.
We need rules. We need authority. And we need obedience.
But there is something we need MORE than obedience. We need for our children to understand that they can’t possibly do it. Yep. You heard me right. Your child, my child, cannot possibly obey 100% of the time. We have to remember that this is a process. It’s a process born out of our desire to please the Lord, but that won’t happen overnight. Nor will it happen all the time. Just think about it. Do you obey God all the time? Ahem, I can only speak for myself here, but if God were giving out grades, I would fail miserably.
If I expect God to have patience with me, as a parent, I need to expect to have patience with my kids. And no, I don’t mean that I should just throw up my hands and let them do what they want. God doesn’t do that with me.
We need to practice intentional parenting that is full of the right kind of grace. When our children do struggle with wrong choices, we need to be there to guide them through it. We need to help them understand they don’t have to be defeated by wrong choices (sin) and there is a way to listen to the right voice.
So let’s take the example from above. The perpetrator (name will remain silent to protect the innocent) has now told me I can’t make her go to her room. Is she right? How do you even respond to that?
Well, she is right. I can’t make her. Sure, I could pick her up and carry her there, and I would certainly do that if she was 4 or 5, but she is twice that. And she has hit the nail on the head as to why parents so desperately feel out of control. We can’t MAKE our kids do things. Aside from physically enforcing something (which only works for a few years), we have no real power here. At least not the forcing kind of power.
If we are to have any success in this situation, it’s going to have to be something that will change WHO they are. Let me explain what I mean by sharing our conversation. (Please note, I remained very calm and quiet while talking to her, despite her behavior.)
Me: You know, you’re right. I can’t make you and I won’t. You are going to have to make a choice here. But before you do, I want to ask you a question.
Child: Silence. Arms crossed, eyes rolled back in head and fire breathing out of her nostrils (ok, maybe not the fire part).
Me: Who are you pleasing right now, yourself or God?
Child: (having been asked this question before and with clenched teeth) MYSELF.
Me: I can understand why. I don’t like it when people annoy me either. But I also don’t like it when people punch me. Don’t you think that is why God wants me to obey his Word in Ephesians 4:32 when He says, “Be kind and compassionate to one another”?
Child: Silence.
Me: I also understand that it’s hard to face it when you know that what you are doing doesn’t please God. That’s why I think we should go into your room and have this discussion. So, would you like to try and obey this time?
Of course there is no magic in my words. The key is two-fold.
#1 Ask “Who are you pleasing right now?” (Because this draws their attention not to you or the sibling or whatever the problem was, but to God. And all matters should be taken up with God.)
#2 Relate to the child. Don’t act high and mighty or perfect. What do you do when the clerk charges you too much or the neighbor destroys your property? Do you feel angry? Of course! You can absolutely relate to what your child is feeling, so rather than judging his/her choice, help them understand that it’s normal to feel that way, but God wants us to make a right response to our feelings.
The goal is to point them back to the truth of the matter, not condemn them. <—-Did you get that.
I think the worst thing a parent can do is shame kids to the point of hopelessness. And I’ll be the first to admit that parents do this unintentionally. We have to remember that they CAN’T do right all the time. Their sinful flesh just won’t let them. So rather than offering them a heap of shame and defeat, we want to offer them questions they can use to help them remember why they really want to do right.
Otherwise, I fear we will be the parents of one of the infamous 76% who will someday walk away from the church (see foot note). After all, what is the point of working so hard to be Christ-like if we are always going to feel full of shame and defeat?
You’re probably wondering if my little talk worked. The truth—> it did, but it doesn’t always make her do what I tell her to do. You see, sometimes I can talk through the wall of selfishness she has put up around her decisions, and sometimes I can’t. But I won’t stop taking this angle to solve the problem, because it’s the only real solution. One day, she is going to be in a position where she has to make all her own choices and where she will face very adult consequences for those choices.
If I am consistent now to point her to the only real answer (God), when it really matters in her life she will not forget that He is the answer.
For now, it doesn’t matter if she went to her room. The first few times I tried this with her, she refused. Little by little, I have seen a change in how long it takes before she comes to her senses. Her apologies have become very sincere and these episodes are much less frequent. I love that it’s so clear God is working in her heart and that she is letting Him! I love it much more than whether or not she actually went to her room that day.
*Studies have shown that 2/3 of today’s Christian teens are leaving the church (the infamous 76% mentioned above). I would highly recommend reading Already Gone, if you have not heard of these studies and their implications.
By the way, if you are struggling with obedience in your home, I would recommend that you take a look at this Bible study. It is written to help children explore WHY, HOW and WHO we should obey. Take the pressure off of your own authority and put it back in the right place by helping them understand what God’s Word has to say about this vital topic!
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Mrs.Momof6 says
Thank you!
I was desperately asking the Lord for the answer to MY defiant child, one that didn’t look like me raising the stakes and escalating the situation and proving I am more powerful. One that spoke GRACE to the hearer.
I am in tears, 1. because this is just what I needed to hear, and 2. because I haven’t been doing it ALL wrong everytime, I have actually implemented this very same methodology, and I am relieved to hear that someone else has heard the same thing, and strives to exemplify grace not condemnation. Thank you.
BTW, my defiant child is only 5. The other day she slammed her bedroom door into the wall repeatedly, breaking the drywall behind the door. I thought I would lose my mind. I was totally helpless, because nothing I could think of was a godly answer. I wish I had remembered THIS advice at that time.
Thanks again!
Kim Sorgius says
Oh girl, I hear ya. It is so hard in the moment not to lose your cool. I find myself apologizing to my kids all of the time! Praying for you as you walk through this. Know that it gets better. When my girl was 5, I thought we might not make it. Yet, just last night I was holding her in my arms and telling her that those things we struggle with are the very things that God will use to make us amazingly useful in His kingdom. His strength is made perfect in our weakness!
Mrs.Momof6 says
Well, we put this into practice, and I haven’t seen things escalating like they were. Been few weeks of relative peace with her! Thanks!
Mrs.Momof6 says
Yes, there are some days I am screaming in my mind “I don’t know how she is going to survive living in this house! For that matter how will *I* survive her??!!” LOL… She’s alot less trouble when Daddy isn’t travelling. He is due to be gone for a 90 day stint soon though… not going to be fun.
She also comes across as super sweet to everyone but ME. I sometimes wonder why I get to see this side of her, that no one else sees. My husband thinks I must be letting her get away with too many things, but I don’t see that…
I have also recently had my eyes opened about grace in general… and have been looking at my parenting through that lens lately. So this article was very timely for me. Thanks again.
Jocelyn says
They act that way because they know you will be there no matter what. You are her saftey net, she can let out her frustration, anger, sadness, everything because she know you love her unconditionally.
Su says
Well, I do like hearing that others have mouthy kids like I do. I guess misery loves company(as it’s said). I end up feeling like a failure when my kids ignore and/or defy me. I don’t understand why it’s become OK to mouth parents. And, I’m not sure how to break the cycle or encourage my kids to break the cycle. Please pray for me. thx
Kim Sorgius says
I will certainly pray for you, friend. You’re not alone!
Cam says
The timing on this is incredible. I have a ten year old son who is a very good, God-loving kid in many ways, but he’s been making some foolish choices when it comes to self-control and obedience. Almost always having to do with his schoolwork and getting it done in a timely manner. I did a wonderful job of shaming him yesterday for his foolish behavior. We both felt horrible, and I had to apologize for things I said to him. I’m so ready to try this approach. I have actually done it a few times, without realizing it’s what I was doing, and he softens very quickly and I can see how much he really desires to follow and please God. I, too, worry a lot about him growing up and deciding it’s not worth the constant feeling of failure when it comes to trying so hard to please God, yet failing constantly. I’m very ready to try a different approach. Thank you!
Kim Sorgius says
Oh, I’ve so been there with kids who struggle to complete school work on time! Praying for you as you work through this!
Heather says
I was literally just looking up godly parenting advice last night as I was at the end of my rope on how to handle certain situations. Knowing that the way I have been handling them is not the best I could be doing for my child. I just got online and found the link to this post in my inbox. I love how the Lord does things like that! I love this post and I am thankful that you have taken the time to write it and share it with us all. Thank you!
Kim Sorgius says
I love how cool God is! He is such an amazing provider for us!
Barbara says
This is a very wise post! I have a question. How do you handle defiance in a special-needs child? My 14 year old has Down syndrome and we are dealing with this issue. Any help would be appreciated!
Kim Sorgius says
Thank you for your sweet words. Honestly, I don’t think I could even begin to answer your question. Although I’ve worked with special needs children back when I was a teacher, I have not parented one in my home. I do know that the rule of thumb is to treat them according to their developmental age. So if your 14 year old is functioning as a 7 year old, then it’s reasonable to talk to them in a manner similar to what I used. If he/she is functioning more like a 5 year old, this kind of conversation would be much more difficult and likely unreasonable. I’m praying for wisdom for you! Wish I could offer more help!
I would recommend this blog as a wealth of information and help for parents of special needs children. Jennifer is a friend and a strong Christian. I think you may find some good help there! http://jenniferajanes.com/
Colleen says
Thank you for writing this. My middle child and I are at odds more then not with school starting. Do you have any other recommendations books other posts etc on how to deal godly with defiant children. I’ll be re reading this trying to internalize it!
Kim Sorgius says
Hi Colleen,
Thank you for your question. If you will scroll back up to the bottom of this post, I have added image links to all of my discipline related posts. Thank you for inspiring me to do this. I know it can be hard to navigate blogs sometimes! I pray that you find something there to help you!
Leslie says
I have a preteen boy who is struggling with obedience and when I use this approach he simply feels, “Great. Not only have I let you down, but I have also let God down.” It doesn’t motivate him to change, he just feels worse. We are working very hard to impart to him the grace of God and the gift of forgiveness by modeling it through our parenting. But still, he has a hard time snapping out of it because he can’t forgive himself. How do you break into the cycle of “I messed up . . . I feel bad . . . I’m no good . . . why try . . (so therefore I mess up again)”? I’ts kind of like Paul in Romans 7 when he talks about trying to do good but failing miserably.Only Christ can save us from ourselves. Any thoughts/ideas would be appreciated.
Kim Sorgius says
As my daughter gets older, I’m seeing more of this as well. I generally say something like this: “You’re right. You messed up and you can’t do this right on your own. Aren’t you glad that God has given you the holy spirit to help you?” Then I would try and share some way that you have messed up and fallen short, so he can see that all of us do this. All God requires of us is that we keep trying to please Him. The only way to truly fail is to give up trying!
I would also spend some time talking about how we can be proactive to help ourselves to do more right than wrong. We do this by spending time in the Word, time in prayer, and studying the Bible in places like Church. remind your son how important these activities are for helping us to have the strength to keep trying.
I hope that helps!
Stephenie says
My 5-year old was just diagnosed with ODD. It started at 11 months when he started walking and I couldn’t believe that a child could be born that “hard wired” towards defiance. He was my 6th child. After 4 years of struggle, I finally, last week, saw our pediatrician and he was diagnosed with ODD. I love your conversation with your child, but not sure that he is to that point yet. Do you have any tips for dealing with a younger child?
Kim Sorgius says
I used to work quite a bit with children who were diagnosed with ODD. Especially at his age, I don’t know that I would focus on discussion. As a classroom teacher, the best strategy with children like this to make a list of what battles you are going to fight. What is REALLY important to you and what is not. Sometimes as parents we nit-pick our kids behavior to death. Try and look at his most troublesome issues and decide if it’s really that bad. If it is, then you need to work on some strategies for changing the behavior. If not, I would let that go and look more closely at those that do really matter.
Anita says
Love the ideas here. Have haphazardly implemented something similar but had forgotten. And have grown more frustrated at times–although it has been a little better. I am wondering, though, what you do in those moments that your child continues to make the wrong choice. For example, when you told her to go to her room and she said no. But decided to obey. How do you respond in those moments that she won’t? It seems like to just let it go is doing a disservice and teaching the wrong thing. But other than somehow FORCING our child to obey, I often feel at a loss. I don’t like where “forcing” goes, but need some tips (obvious though they may be) on what to do in THOSE moments. Would LOVE any input.
Kim Sorgius says
Well, again, I can’t physically force her. She is too large. And she doesn’t always chose the right thing in this moment. But I wouldn’t say that she gets away with it. She will suffer the consequences of her disobedience at some point. That might not be in the moment that I chose, but eventually it will happen. If she refuses to listen to wise counsel in that moment, I remind her that there will be consequences for that choice. That might be the loss of her screen time for the day or longer. It might be the loss of an activity that she was looking forward to. I try to tailor it to what I think will have an affect her behavior in the future.
Amanda says
Boy…you hit the nail on the head for my week. But I’m starting to have trouble at age 7! She is already fighting back, yelling…and now the three year old is copying the same behavior. I’ve started taking things away…but sometimes that doesn’t always work. I love your strategy…I will have to use it this week.
I have read excerpts from Ken Ham’s book…so far so good. After I get through a couple of other bible studies, I will have to pick up a copy.
Love this post…and I’ll keep following your blog. God Bless! AH
Kim Sorgius says
I’m so glad to hear that this post was so useful to you. I love it when God does that!
Mama J says
Thank you!! I have a four-year-old son (our only boy) who is described to a T in this post! I have found this as a result of a search, since I was desperate. I have prayed and prayed that God would teach me to be the mother this child needs. I do realize I try to control the situation too much, and my husband always tells me that I micro manage the children (we have four). I am so thankful to know that other moms have been/are going through this. And I thank you for your wise words. The toddler stage is more difficult, but I see hope for the future too. Thank you!
Mama J
Jennifer says
So may I ask what you did in those instances when this didn’t work? That’s when things go wrong for us, when I try to do it like this and she still is defiant. Is there a next step here or are we just stuck?
Kim Sorgius says
Pray for you child. When they do come out of the defiance, they still suffer the consequence, only worse. Keep instilling and discipling. That’s truthfully the only thing you can do!
Anastasia says
Thank you a lot for all your posts, for all your ideas about… to be close with your children. I am from Russia. I am mom of two monkeys :)) and my children need to know about God and His word. Your blog helps me to understand how I can help to my children
Kim Sorgius says
So glad you are encouraged!
Tracy says
I love this post, but I have a question. What do you when the child chooses not to go to their room, to not obey, even after you have gone through the questions? How do respond and what are the consequences?
Kim Sorgius says
They still get those consequences, just after they have calmed down. I have found that if I can be patient, they often come around much quicker than I would expect.
Tiffani says
I’m curious what to do when my daughter refuses to listen. Im new to the grace thing and want to parent that way, but I have a hard time seeing how or what is a consequence that is lasting and Loving. Like if in your story your daughter had refused to go to her room what would you do or say? Or what have you done? I am very frustrated with my daughter’s outbursts the last two weeks. I like that your setting her up for the future and leaving it up to her. I have definitely errored on the side of permissive and way to many chances. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks
Kristy Howard says
I was this child.
I have at least two of these children and, yes, they keep me on my knees!
Thank you so much for this post.
Cate says
A thought worth pursuing – sometimes the defiance can be from a food intolerance causing a chemically imbalanced brain. Or unbalanced hormones. I had preteens who were beginning to get really defiant. For a completely unrelated issue I put them on a wheat free, sugar free (even sugary fruit-free), colours-, flavours- and preservative-free eating plan.. And after 3 weeks the defiance dropped off. It isn’t just artificial colours and flavours, but some natural ones too. Interestingly, wheat and sugar are more likely to cause defiance with one of mine than colours or preservatives. but the colours and additives cause anxiety, which contribute to arguments.
I also noticed a difference with wild yam extract cream, helping their hormones balance.
I had tried not doing artificial colours before hand, but didn’t notice a difference. It needed to be all of it, and permanently.. Not haphazard and for one week.
Kim Sorgius says
You’re right food affects in ways we can’t even imagine sometimes!
Melanie says
I came across your blog because of a link in my GEMS monthly newsletter. They had your blog as a link for how to patiently deal with a defiant child. Since I currently have a very sassy child in my class at GEMS, I thought I’d check this out. 😉 I really like what you had to say. It gives the child the reason to think beyond themselves and their own needs. Thanks for the helpful, and godly advice! I’ll be checking back here often as you have many other posts that I’d like to read.
Kim Sorgius says
Welcome! Glad to have you and thanks for your kind words!
James says
The parent is unable and therefor the child is threatened with displeasing God. It gets scared and listens. The parent is happy and the child learns a fear of God instead of a love for him. Is learned by the parents to see God as someone evil who is angry and easily displeased. I understand many teens wanting the leave the church if their idea of God is equal to anger, threats and punishment instead of love and forgiveness.
Haylee says
When you encountered those times that your child did not listen and go to their room, even after you acknowledged you couldn’t make them and asked who they were pleasing, related to them, but still did not get the desired obedience result, what’s the next step you took? I fear I’ll get to that point and then just stand there silly not knowing what to do next. The silent awkwardness of my blank stare might prompt them to go into their room just to escape. Lol
Kim Sorgius says
I pray. Silently. And if they don’t respond, I keep on praying. There is a LOT of power in silence and prayer, of course.
Lucy says
Any advice or recommendations for the defiant child at 13? My son was diagnosed at 5 also and will outright refuse. Example: I’m not going to VBS! If I didn’t make him, he wouldn’t do a good many things. But he already has questioned the existence of God so I pray for the way God directs. Yet the way he treats me sometimes is so hard to bear without losing it, which I have before, so currently my goal is to model remaining calm.